year 2006 - where are they going?

*MAGic diable* wrote:

Margarita and Povilas are not going to continue their amateur career. They won't be at Skate America.

Really? Huh. Well, I wonder why they haven't announced that yet, there's no need to take up spots at Grand Prix events if you know you're not going. And right now they're down for Skate America and Skate Canada. Do you have any idea when they might make that official? It's not quite fair to people who might be able to take those spots to limit their preparation time.

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Albena and Maxim. They wanted to rest.. it doesn't find an excuse for them, but actually their problem was they couldn't say "No" to the press and TV. They liked to be at the centre of attention, to be in the limelight, although it took a lot of their time and power. They said: "People would like to see us, they invite us, we can't refuse and offend them".. At times Albena doubted if she really wanted to stay. And if she didn't want to stay, so she didn't think about FD.. and so on..

This was exactly what I was thinking. The problem is that if you're going to be serious about competing, at some point you have to be able to say no to people who are putting demands on your time-- and it should not take three months to get to that point. I was fully expecting that they would take a month or 6 weeks off to go home, take a break, do the press thing, and all that, but after that... As everyone knows, I never cared whether they stayed or not, but I do think that if you want to compete that has to be your absolute number one priority. Of course, on the one hand, they know that; but on the other hand, it's very easy to get swept up in the attention you get from success-- not in the sense that it might make them arrogant, but in the sense that it's a very easy distraction from anything else.

alexandra wrote:

And, I think that 2.5 months are enough for putting together all the elements and making a beautiful FD. (especially becuase they are little "workaholics" and they always practice a lot..even if this is very tirening )

Well, I'm not sure that I agree that 2.5 months is "enough", but I do think it's possible that they could do it. I'm not saying it's impossible, or that the season is necessarily going to be a disaster, or that if they started the season badly they couldn't still succeed in the end (I mean, look at their last season). I'm just saying that this is not a particularly stellar start to the season and that-- right now-- it makes their actual commitment to competing look a bit weak. If they show up at SA looking as prepared as people usually do at early Grand Prix events, that's great. I'm just not expecting it at this point.

DEAR GIRLS!!!

I've been reading what Grace wrote in her last post verrrrrrrry attentively!
I admit that it doesn't come as a surprise to me!
I anticipated all the demands Albie and Max had to meet from the media!
And I understand it!


SOOOO...LET'S wait and see!!!

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Of course I'm wondering, and not for the first time, if they're actually planning on showing up at any of their Grand Prix events-- or at least, not going to Skate America. If I were them, that's what I'd be planning at this point, although the rules about withdrawing have gotten much stricter now, so that might not be practical.

I thought that if you withdrew without being injured, you'd lose all your chances of competing again this season, including the European and World Championships. They wouldn't want that, would they? And faking an injury, if that even is at all possible, doesn't sound like them either.

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If they don't go to Skate America, that's okay with me. I'd much rather them not show up than show up not ready and getting slammed by the judges.

I wouldn't! The reason being, they've been slammed down so often, and unfairly as far as I could judge it, that competing in order to please the judges can't be the most important thing any more. And defending a title never counts as quite as much as gaining it in the first place, which is probably why so many couples retire immediately after winning. They've put Bulgaria on the map, skating-wise. They've achieved something no-one has done before and which will last for quite some time, as far as we can see; they can gain little in terms of fame from their last season. What they can gain is as much enjoyment as possible. Staying might not have been wise but it was a very brave thing, and a very nice thing for their fans, of them to do.
I just want to know what they can come up with for their last year; and I'm sure just seeing it will be worth it, no matter if they come first or last in the marks. They'll always be World Champions to me. They were before they got officially awarded the title, too.

nyx wrote:

I thought that if you withdrew without being injured, you'd lose all your chances of competing again this season, including the European and World Championships. They wouldn't want that, would they? And faking an injury, if that even is at all possible, doesn't sound like them either.

You do, at least according to the letter of the rule, but as far as I know Sasha Cohen and Evgeny Plushenko aren't decided on Worlds next year, and neither of them are competing in the Grand Prix. According to the way the rule is written, there shouldn't be any question, they should just be out, but they're both noncommittal, so I'm thinking there's some way around it that I just don't know about. Maybe it's to never be in the draw for GP events at all-- if so, then obviously that is not an option for Albena and Maxim.

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I wouldn't! The reason being, they've been slammed down so often, and unfairly as far as I could judge it, that competing in order to please the judges can't be the most important thing any more.

That's true, but there's a huge difference between finishing poorly because you're judged unfairly and finishing poorly because you showed up unprepared. I can't think why anyone would ever set themselves up to compete unprepared.

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And defending a title never counts as quite as much as gaining it in the first place, which is probably why so many couples retire immediately after winning.

Defending a title is not important at all if you don't attempt to defend it. If you show up to defend it and lose, not defending it is very important-- at least from a marketing/standing within the sport standpoint.

This is definitely one of those times when I think some people think I'm less of a fan if I don't stand here and say everything Albena and Maxim do is pretty and perfect. I agree they were often judged unfairly, and I agree that their World title was long overdue, but none of that is going to make me think that they're always right and everything they do is fabulous just because they are who they are. They're great skaters, but they're still people. Maybe this will turn out all right competitively and maybe it won't, and maybe some people don't care whether it turns out all right competitively or not-- if they show up well-prepared with good programs, I don't care either. My admiration of them is in no way conditioned upon how they finish in competition. But I will never be able to say that I think that, for example, not having your FD music picked out in August is a fine approach to the season.

If that bothers some people, so be it, but I'm not going to apologize, and there's no need to defend your point of view against mine-- I'm well aware that my approach is not the majority approach on this message board, and we all seem to get along fine anyway.

Grace wrote:

If that bothers some people, so be it, but I'm not going to apologize, and there's no need to defend your point of view against mine-- I'm well aware that my approach is not the majority approach on this message board, and we all seem to get along fine anyway.

Dear Grace, I don't have time to answer properly and to write my opinions about this. But I want to say that I treasure your opinions a lot. And I also admire your point of views. For me, they are always very fair, balanced, objective....

..and I know that I'm a "novice" in this sport, I don't know many things about the technical aspect, I also realize that I'm subjective most of the times, regarding this beautiful couple.

I could never argue with you (because most of the time I think you are right, even if I have faith and I hope things will be different ) and I could never be mad on you only because you have diferent/strong point of views.

We get along fine, you are right!!! and this is great!! It is also nice to have discussions like this and to open our eyes from time to time.

And the last thing you should do is appologize...No!

So, thanks :<33:

I think about something else - do you remember the year 2000. Albena wassuffering from her injury, they miss maybe more than 3 months of training (I don't remember many details, I hope I'm not wrong) and were obliged to make the same FD as the previous season, which was almost a suicide. But they did hold their positions, despite everithing. I think that now is almost the same - thanks God, without the injury. They're experienced enough and I HOPE they'll make it.

Kisses!

Grace wrote:

If that bothers some people, so be it, but I'm not going to apologize, and there's no need to defend your point of view against mine-- I'm well aware that my approach is not the majority approach on this message board, and we all seem to get along fine anyway.

I, for one, am not bothered in the slightest by your approach, Grace. I respect your opinions, which are always well thought-out and intelligent. Of course, I don't always agree with everything you write, but your messages do broaden my view point on matters. Often, I will just see an issue from one angle. But after reading one of your posts, I'll think, "Oh wait, that's a really good point. I hadn't thought of it, like that."

People on this message board are going to have difference in opinions. But hey, that gives us a lot to discuss! And as you said, we all seem to get along fine, anyway. In my opinion, that is what's important.

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They're great skaters, but they're still people.

I think you hit the nail right on the head with this line. Albena and Maxim are people... skaters. I'm worried that this choice of not picking out their FD music is the "wrong" choice. It's August. Even because they are Albena Denkova & Maxim Staviski doesn't make me confident that they can throw together a "perfect and pretty" FD in this amount of time. Programs take time to come together. I'm not going to lie and say that I'm sure they will be prepared in time for Skate America. I'm not sure. I'm hoping that they *will* be... but I'm not hopeful. Just my opinion.

Grace wrote:

But I will never be able to say that I think that, for example, not having your FD music picked out in August is a fine approach to the season.

If that bothers some people, so be it, but I'm not going to apologize, and there's no need to defend your point of view against mine-- I'm well aware that my approach is not the majority approach on this message board, and we all seem to get along fine anyway.

No need to apologize, Grace! It's normal that we have different opinions on some questions, and as Lana says

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that gives us a lots to discuss!

I admit that, we like it or not, you're right on some points - Albena and Max must be very responsible this season, they defend their title! If they won't win, this won't be a tragedy, but they have to do all to be the best, as in the previous seasons, to show to all that their title wasn't occasional (because there are people who believe it )

Kisses!

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If that bothers some people, so be it, but I'm not going to apologize, and there's no need to defend your point of view against mine-- I'm well aware that my approach is not the majority approach on this message board, and we all seem to get along fine anyway.

It doesn't bother me. Why should it? I hope that you're not thinking that I'm trying to defend my point of view against yours, 'cause I'm not. I'm just stating my own. If Albena and Max do their best that'll be all anyone can ask of them - I think we agree on that. The question is whether 'their best' is the same as the 'objective best', i.e. it's not the ideal thing to have your music ready only in mid-August, but sometimes that's all you can do, even if you take it all seriously.

I'm sure your expertise is much respected here (you're certainly more of an expert than I am) and I'm sure this board would be very boring if everyone agreed all the time. And I don't think it's even possible to rank the fan-ish-ness of people. :-)

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If that bothers some people, so be it, but I'm not going to apologize, and there's no need to defend your point of view against mine-- I'm well aware that my approach is not the majority approach on this message board, and we all seem to get along fine anyway.

dear Grace, why should you apologize for giving your opinion in the way you do, very clear and objective. everyone here has her own opinion and we are here to discuss, noo? I like it when you say this about Albena and Max because probably you're right and it's good to read it, you know even many things about technical aspects

kusjes!

Argh, I was in a way bad mood when I wrote that. I mean, it's all exactly what I think, but a little... harsher than I otherwise would have written.

Forgive me, I've been working 14.5 hours a day for two weeks straight now, my brain is complete and total mush, and my temper is, er, quite short. So if I write something that sounds mean and/or defensive, just imagine that it sounds... less mean and/or defensive. I think I'm going to take a posting break until my schedule is more under control-- aside from judging, which is not exactly relaxing, I haven't had a single day off in over a month.

Annnnnyway, my main point is that this is not good news, but that does not automatically make it bad news. No one will know until they actually skate somewhere. Although now I am very very tempted to make sure they have their music cut when I go to Delaware at the end of the month.

DEAR FANS!
I'm writing from a computer centre in the village I'm in. I miss you all!
I am worried about what some of you wrote about Albena and Max! I hope everything will be all right! And I hope they make the right choices for their music FD!



I LOVE YOU ALLLLL AND don't forget this wonderful family!!

To get back to the whole "where are they going" topic...

It was pointed out to me that skaters were unlikely to go to their first Grand Prix competition (i.e., Skate America, for Albenka and Max) without having done at least one competition beforehand.

The ones that I could find that are before Skate America and have dancing are Ondrej Nepala, Nebelhorn, and Karl Schafer. Ondrej Nepala in mid-September seems a tad early (especially if they're late with their music) and Karl Schafer in mid-October seems a tad late... if anything about the program didn't work, that'd give them only a few days for changes. This makes Nebelhorn (29 September - 1 October) a likely guess.
Or maybe I'm missing something - there may be smaller competitions in the U.S., which'd be more convenient as they're already there. There might be Nationals - didn't they skate at the Italian Nationals last year? It might depend on the competition they're going to meet, too.

I don't think the thing about "most" skaters doing a competition before a Grand Prix is even true. I would say the majority do not, particularly if we're talking about athletes in the top 10-12 in the world. For instance, top American skaters would almost never be able to do a smaller international before the Grand Prix because USFS uses the Senior B competitions (Ondrej Nepala, Nebelhorn, etc.) to give assignments to lower ranked Senior and Junior skaters. Last year was a bit of an exception because a lot of people wanted more mileage on their programs in an Olympic year. I'd say the only top ice dance team that "consistently" does an international competition before the Grand Prix is Chait/Sakhnovsky, and that's only because they show up to Skate Israel whenever it's actually held (hence the "consistently" in quotes).

There are some other events top skaters might do-- the Russian federation runs a "test skate" for its national team, where competitors get feedback from judges on their new programs, and I think maybe in France there's a competition before the Grand Prix starts that the higher ranked skaters occasionally show up at, but for the most part that's a B competition, too. I guess maybe you might count the American fall "cheesefest" in there, too? But those are singles only competitions, very small, and very limited in their field.

To the extent that some competitors compete in a smaller competition prior to Grand Prixs, they are generally Senior "B" skaters who place well enough in a smaller competition (that they got assigned to by virtue of being a "B" competitor) that they are then assigned to a Grand Prix event. This would not be possible for most seeded skaters simply because they, by virtue/nature of their current world ranking, are not "B" competitors. Also, some pairs may compete in events prior to the Senior Grand Prix season because pairs (and only pairs) are allowed to compete simultaneously in the Junior and Senior Grand Prixs.

Albena and Maxim themselves have gone into the previous two seasons without doing pre-Grand Prix competitions. They used to do Finlandia, but that competition hasn't had dance in a long time. I can't think of any smaller American competitions they could do prior to the Grand Prix-- the big ice dance competition was last week (Lake Placid), and the only other big invitational that I know has dance and that is prior to Skate America is the Challenge Cup, and I would be very surprised, to say the least, to see them show up there.

Italian Nationals, at least last year, were held in January.

Dear Grace,

thanks a lot for that extensive answer... though you did rather diminuish my hopes of seeing Albena and Max anytime before Skate America. And I'd be very surprised if my local TV stations would show that event. Didn't they use to do something in Germany called the BoFrost Cup (but I'm not sure when it was usually held and if it still exists)?

On another note, sometime around now all skaters ought to have said whether they were going to do their assigned Grand Prix competitions - wasn't the deadline August 15? If we could find out about it, that ought to clear up some of the speculation on whether Albena and Max are going to show up at Skate America (since a last-minute retreat isn't covered by the rules) and whether Drobiatzko/Vanagas have retired or not.

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Didn't they use to do something in Germany called the BoFrost Cup (but I'm not sure when it was usually held and if it still exists)?

dear nyx,

as far as I know Evgeni Plushenko used to go to Bofrost Cup on Ice and it was held in Gelsenkirchen, but now it isn't a Grand-Prix anymore. I'm not sure if it still does exist in another way, so probably Albena and Maxim will skate there...I don't know that

nyx wrote:

And I'd be very surprised if my local TV stations would show that event.

If you're talking about Challenge Cup, I'd be very surprised if ANY TV station would show that event.

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On another note, sometime around now all skaters ought to have said whether they were going to do their assigned Grand Prix competitions - wasn't the deadline August 15? If we could find out about it, that ought to clear up some of the speculation on whether Albena and Max are going to show up at Skate America (since a last-minute retreat isn't covered by the rules) and whether Drobiatzko/Vanagas have retired or not.

Drobiazko/Vanagas have withdrawn from all their assigned GP events (replaced by the Zaretskis at Skate America and the Estonian team at Skate Canada). The Aug 15 date is just a confirmation that at this point in time you intend to try to show up, though, it's not an absolute guarantee... there's still always room for an "injury" or "illness" withdrawal. I'm not saying anyone would fake anything, I'm just saying that being on the list on Aug 15 is no guarantee that someone will actually show up. A last minute retreat doesn't need to be covered by the rules, compelling people to perform physical tasks (like skating in a competition) is illegal-- the ISU can make strict requirements for withdrawal (and harsh consequences if the withdrawal rules are not followed), but obviously they cannot actually force anyone to compete.

Bofrost used to be a Grand Prix event and now is a Senior B competition-- it's still during the Grand Prix season when it's held, though, generally towards the middle of October. Also, I think they may not even have dance anymore, although I'm not completely sure about that. I could check if I wasn't so exhausted.

Thanks, nyx and Grace for all that info So, Drobiazko and Vanagas will not compete anymore - that's sure
I can't wait for the new season, I miss the figure skating competitions

Kisses!

I was just thinking...
Albena and Maxim could use their Adagio program for Skate America. I know it's like a suicide for such couple (they are the world champions finally) but after all Drobiazko and Vanagas won't be there (it's so sad ) and this could give them enough time to prepare for TEB and a chance to take part in GP Final.

They could, of course, just use Adagio again for SA (or for the whole season if they felt like it). I personally think it's a bad idea, because I don't see how training two FDs and an OD is better than training just one FD and an OD-- I think they'd be better off to just really focus on the new FD and do that one, come what may. But they certainly could reuse Adagio.

Hello

I'm pretty much scared concerning future events. I'm nervous and also very curious. I would like to 'see' how everything turns out just fine for Albena and Maxim. I would love to see them on the first position. This would increase the chances and intensify hopes for worlds.

But my opinion is that if the new FD is not ready, they shouldn't present it at Skate America. They should use "Adagio" for this event, keeping the new FD for the other events, having the element of surprise. If, and only if the new dance is not yet perfect, they should skate "Adagio". This way they have all the chances to win at SA and in the same time they won't damage in any way the new FD. (The way people will perceive it)

In my opinion the new program has to have a glorious start. If it's not polished and refined people and judges might put this routine in a bad light. And this is definetly not good for them.

Bye...

alexandra wrote:

But my opinion is that if the new FD is not ready, they shouldn't present it at Skate America. They should use "Adagio" for this event, keeping the new FD for the other events, having the element of surprise. If, and only if the new dance is not yet perfect, they should skate "Adagio".

Or, they just could skate the new FD, but without some of the most difficult elements that aren't ready yet. And they can leave the complete program, with all the elements, for the first big competition - the Euros or, eventually, the Grand Prix final.
In this case, the element of surprise will be present as well.
It's a difficult decision...

Vania wrote:

It's a difficult decision...

Yes it is....but I'm curious wether they are thinking about this or not. They might feel prepared. They might have the new FD at a good level. And with practice...maybe they are not thinking on using "Adagio".

alexandra wrote:

In my opinion the new program has to have a glorious start. If it's not polished and refined people and judges might put this routine in a bad light. And this is definetly not good for them.

I think that no one expects new programs, or even the new season's compulsories, to be really polished and ready at the first competition of the season. A "glorious start" is definitely not necessary. What's necessary is a confident start, and showing the basis for something that will be a great program by the end of the season.

So if they manage to pull together a decent new FD to do at Skate America, they'll be fine. What will really kill them politically will be if they show up with the new FD really just not ready and everyone knows it's because they didn't really start it until August or September. Doing Adagio would be a dead giveaway for that, as well, and I really don't see how they can be working on a new FD and training Adagio hard enough to compete it. Showing up with Adagio would be especially bad if they weren't skating it well because they hadn't spent much time on it because they're trying to get a new FD together, so I think doing Adagio, all in all, would be a really, really bad idea.

And they have to win Skate America if they compete. Have to. For the World Champions to show up at their first competition of the year and be beaten by the 9th place team would be beyond disastrous. Losing to Rita and Povilas would have been one thing, losing to Gregory/Petukhov would be... well, really bad. Their first real test should be TEB against Isabelle and Olivier.

I read all your posts about the FD not being ready and I'm very surprised indeed!
And I agree with Grace alllllll along!!