The books that you like

Quote :: For me, it's very interesting!

Vania, do you know Marinanne Frederiksson?
She writes such wonderful books, even one about Maria Magdalena with her story of Jesus...that was really
interesting and surprising I thought....

The Gospels of Thomas and Judas are found...
it would be interesting to read that ones too flower

The book I'm reading now is from Lulu Wang, I only know
the Dutch title, Het lelietheater. It's a so beautiful story!!!!
about a Chinese girl growing up in the time of Mao Zhedong.

Channanja (Rachel) wrote:: Vania, do you know Marinanne Frederiksson?
She writes such wonderful books, even one about Maria Magdalena with her story of Jesus...that was really
interesting and surprising I thought....

No, Rachel, never heard about her! But if I find some of her books, by any chance, I'll read it! :study: Thanks for the information flower

CHANNANJA Rachel wrote!

Quote :: Vania, do you know Marinanne Frederiksson?
She writes such wonderful books, even one about Maria Magdalena with her story of Jesus...that was really
interesting and surprising I thought....

The Gospels of Thomas and Judas are found...
it would be interesting to read that ones

As a matter of fact I have read that book!It's verrrry , verrry interesting!!!
I read it in englisg and I found it very easy and pleasent to read!

But I read another one that for me was much more disturbing!!

The original title in french was L'AFFAIRE MARIE MADELEINE!The author is Gerald Messadie!
This one was much more disturbing, because there is a lot of speculation in it!!
Maria Of MAGDALA in this book is the leader of a plot to save Jesus from death!! AND SHE DID!!!
VERY DISTURBING INDEED AND SETS YOU IN A MOOD TO THINK ABOUT ALL THIS!!!

In my humble opinion we are in for times of debate in the Catholic church, and I think it's high time because catholics around the World ardently wish it!!!

OF course there are lots of them that are veryyy shocked with this books and the Da VINCI CODE!!!

loveall

BEA WROTE!

Quote :: OMG!!! Maria! I didn't know that women weren't entitled to have a soul!! :shock:Because they were evil!!
That is really shocking!!!
But,...I am sure that OUR LORD JESUS NEVER SAID THAT!!!

NO, I DON'T THINK JESUS EVER SAID THAT!!!
BUT CHRISTIANITY is greatly influenced by St AUGUSTINE AND ST THOMAS AQUINAS, that had a rather peculiar way of regarding the role of women in society at the time!!! shocked

Quote Vania!

Quote :: Since I read the Dan Brown's books I begin to think about these things. Some of his opinions sounds very logical, some of them are doubtful ...
What a discussion we have began, eh? For me, it's very interesting!

I agree! And believe me , I am a devout Catholic Basketball

However we can't ignore that many of the laws of the church today { Catholic Church}, were made by men, some centuries after Jesus!
So, maybe they were wrong!!!WE don't know! And they may be right in some ideas too!
I know that Catholics want something..perhaps a lot to change, but, perhaps one day the most conservstive ideas inside the church will be more flexible saaad

Quoting Channanja RACHEL!

Quote :: The book I'm reading now is from Lulu Wang, I only know
the Dutch title, Het lelietheater. It's a so beautiful story!!!!
about a Chinese girl growing up in the time of Mao Zhedong

That must be very interesting indeed!
I read WILD SWANS some time ago and I was really shocked when I found out the treatment great part of the population had through the so called Cultural Revolution!! Shocked

There was a scene that particularly shocked me!!!
One women had to make a public confession about her political faults, and she had to kneel on broken glass for hours!!! Sad

I was so shocked that I even cried while I was reading that part! Sad

This is a very cruel world indeed!!! Shocked

I really don't know what to say! nooo

Wow girls...The discussion is very, very interesting. I have so many opinions about this and I can't really organise them right now. Since I wasn't part of the discussion Sad

it's a bit hard to answer to all the main ideas..

The main problem is that religion, especially chrisstianity was highly institusionalized and that's why we see so many heartless people, bad priests, drunk priests, all kind of stupid laws and so - called "moral" percepts. The whole Church is not a bad thing but often you realise the Church is an institution that doesn't have it's "healing", "love" quallity anymore.
Religion was always a form of control and catholics prooved it many, many times. Sad

I'm a catholic as well...but when I think about the Inquisition I always get sad. Sad

How can you be so heartless....Hmm, that's another issue that I'll develop in Maria's thread. (Yep..I read many messages already..I can't wait to answer).
I found out lately, Catholics have a set of rules that a woman should respect. Our actual Pope read them. I don't know how many of the rules are still respected nowadays or if the priests, bishops still agrees, but I'm telling you that the woman isn't described very nicely..The main idea: a sinner that has to be submissive. uhh...ok...

On the other hand, I'm sure that woman had a huge part in the history of religion, probably she had a major role near Jesus as well. Women can't be less important..It's not logic at all. Furthermore, there are many writings that atest her role everywhere.
I think all the problems women had and still have is because of the rules created by men, probably the church ruled by man in order to control her and the society better.

There are groups of chrisstians that say Adam and Eve ate together and in the same time from the apple. They are equally sinners...

(I'm soo chaotic...I'm sorry. This subject is huuuuge and I have so many ideas that I can't pull myself together Embarassed

)

I belive in something, somebody, everything...I don't know if his/her name is Jesus, God, Allah (There can be only one) but I'm sure I don't trust most of the priests. The Church became the most profitable market. Really!! This shouldn't happen. I like to go visit churches, sometimes I find a little, tiny peace there. But I go when I want and when I feel like it...I don't follow rules very much. Maybe this makes me a sinner... Sad

I hope not..I belive in my own way.

People say that the Gospels and the Bible are incomplete. I tend to belive this. Some say that the Bible was "epurated" 2 or 3 times and then major parts of it (even about the women's status) were erased.
I know there are documents found near The Dead Sea and some gospels..What I don't understand is why the Church refuses to acknowledge them?!
Why is Joan or Luca accepted but not another follower of Jesus?! Is it possible that the Church (as an institution) is afraid?!

THE LOST GOSPEL OF JUDAS
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/lostgospel/document.html

AM expert Number of posts : 534 Registration date : 2006-03-30

alexandra wrote:: I belive in something, somebody, everything...I don't know if his/her name is Jesus, God, Allah (There can be only one) but I'm sure I don't trust most of the priests. The Church became the most profitable market. Really!! This shouldn't happen. I like to go visit churches, sometimes I find a little, tiny peace there. But I go when I want and when I feel like it...I don't follow rules very much. Maybe this makes me a sinner... I hope not..I belive in my own way.

I am the same, Alex. I'm also Catholic, but I've had a hard time believing everything in this religion, all the rules and proclamations, since I was a very small child. I love going to churches and I find peace there, but I very rarely go to Mass, as I disagree with almost everything that is said within the service.

The Bible says to "love thy neighbour as thyself", but the Catholic Church (and many other Christian denominations!) have perpetrated horrible things on people who do not agree with them. I've read the Qu'ran all the way through, and it's beautiful, but many things are done in the name of Allah which do not reflect the true meaning of Islam. It's like this in many many religions-- beautiful on paper, very ugly in the real world. As you say, Alex, religious institutions are a form of control, and they can be badly manipulated. They have been manipulated to marginalize women for thousands and thousands of years! I do not understand how any religion, such as Catholicism, which holds the Virgin Mary (a woman!) in such high regard can teach that women are the root of sin and refuse to allow them in positions of authority.

And this portrayal of Mary Magdalene as a prostitute... it is so common that even my parents, who are not very religious at all, taught me she was a prostitute. I feel this is an incorrect portrayal which no one is very interested in correcting because it would be a big motivation for Catholics to start questioning a woman's closeness to Jesus Christ, instead of continuing to believe that he surrounded himself only with men, and therefore only men are fit to be close to God.

Quote :: People say that the Gospels and the Bible are incomplete. I tend to belive this. Some say that the Bible was "epurated" 2 or 3 times and then major parts of it (even about the women's status) were erased.
I know there are documents found near The Dead Sea and some gospels..What I don't understand is why the Church refuses to acknowledge them?!
Why is Joan or Luca accepted but not another follower of Jesus?! Is it possible that the Church (as an institution) is afraid?!

I think the Church is quite scared! So many people believe in the Church without question, and I truly believe that the Church is terrified of what would happen if people started questioning the Church's authority-- which many would undoubtedly do if they realized how much the Church "edited" the Bible!

Actually, I think that anyone who knows Church history would question the institution's moral authority. It is my opinion (and I hope I don't offend anyone! Shocked

) that there is a God, but specific religions are created by human beings to control other human beings. Catholicism, like any other religion, is a human creation, not a divine gift.

But I know many many people disagree with me on this, I struggle with it myself. It is a very interesting conversation, though!

Grace wrote:: But I know many many people disagree with me on this, I struggle with it myself. It is a very interesting conversation, though!

Ohhooo..the struggle. I agree!! It's very hard to have a firm opinion about this when there are so many missing values..or when new ones appear. It's actually more confusing. I'm tryiong to be balanced on this but I'm not sure this is the right way.

Grace wrote:: The Bible says to "love thy neighbour as thyself", but the Catholic Church (and many other Christian denominations!) have perpetrated horrible things on people who do not agree with them.

Yes, unfortunatelly there are many, many contradictions. I tried reading the Bible but after the "Genesis" I had already so many questions that I couldn't go further. You don't want to know how my teacher (we had religion in highschool. Everyone here does...or did. I'm not sure which are the latest reglementations) answered! He almost said that the best way is to be ignorant. I don't want ultimate, supreme truths (If somebody want to tell me some, I don't mind ...hehe Wink

), but show at least a bit of respect and consideration towards what a person can accept: "It's good that you read and that you are interested, but don't develop the ideas..take them as they are" !!

Grace wrote:: I've read the Qu'ran all the way through, and it's beautiful, but many things are done in the name of Allah which do not reflect the true meaning of Islam. It's like this in many many religions-- beautiful on paper, very ugly in the real world.

I read parts from it...there are many similarities with Christianity. How come our cultures are sooooo different?!

Religion is a set of beliefs that every civilisation needs. It all depends on it's influence, on the possibility to use it as a tool in order to manipulate...

AM expert Number of posts : 534 Registration date : 2006-03-30

alexandra wrote:: I tried reading the Bible but after the "Genesis" I had already so many questions that I couldn't go further.

I am trying to read the Bible now! I finally got past Deuteronomy. Rolling Eyes

It is a very... very... slow... read. But I feel like I should read it at some point, so I am trying to do it now.

What your teacher said is really terrible! Yes, yes, ignorance is the best. Rolling Eyes

Quote :: I read parts from it...there are many similarities with Christianity. How come our cultures are sooooo different?!

I have no idea, I've read so many books and had so many discussions and spent so much time trying to make some sense of this very question, but I never get very far.

Alex wrote!

Quote :: I like to go visit churches, sometimes I find a little, tiny peace there. But I go when I want and when I feel like it...I don't follow rules very much. Maybe this makes me a sinner... I hope not..I belive in my own way.

Dear Alex!
I don't follow rules much too!
All I know and I learned it as a christian is that Jesus welcomed everyone!!!
Sooo, how can you be a sinner, dear????? heart2

:<33:

And Grace wrote!

Quote :: As you say, Alex, religious institutions are a form of control, and they can be badly manipulated. They have been manipulated to marginalize women for thousands and thousands of years! I do not understand how any religion, such as Catholicism, which holds the Virgin Mary (a woman!) in such high regard can teach that women are the root of sin and refuse to allow them in positions of authority. And this portrayal of Mary Magdalene as a prostitute... it is so common that even my parents, who are not very religious at all, taught me she was a prostitute. I feel this is an incorrect portrayal which no one is very interested in correcting

I totally agree!
But, I think most Catholics are now demanding some changes in the role of women and in the matter of the ban of catholic priests to marry! saaad

But I don't know whether we will be heard soon enough!!! saaad

Grace wrote:: What your teacher said is really terrible! Yes, yes, ignorance is the best.

It's classic: "Ignorance is bliss" but I can't accept this. :blink:

Grace wrote:

Quote :: I read parts from it...there are many similarities with Christianity. How come our cultures are sooooo different?!

I have no idea, I've read so many books and had so many discussions and spent so much time trying to make some sense of this very question, but I never get very far.

Don't worry, it was more of a rethorical question :kataus:

People much more smarter than us (no offense, please..) aren't able to answer. What are the chances for us, to discover the source of differences or the source of conflict. :disap:

Maria wrote:: Dear Alex!
I don't follow rules much too!
All I know and I learned it as a christian is that Jesus welcomed everyone!!!
Sooo, how can you be a sinner, dear????? :<33:

Ohh..thank you dear Maria.
I hope you are right...I don't want to be mean or to do harm.

Alex wrote too!

Quote :: It's classic: "Ignorance is bliss" but I can't accept this.

I can't accept it either!!!

It's knowledge that is bliss!!!! heart2

AM expert Number of posts : 534 Registration date : 2006-03-30

alexandra wrote:: Don't worry, it was more of a rethorical question People much more smarter than us (no offense, please..) aren't able to answer. What are the chances for us, to discover the source of differences or the source of conflict.

Well, I don't like to say "smarter", I like to say "more knowledgable". We don't know these people-- surely some of them are smarter than we are, but equally surely, some of them are not. Smile

On a more serious note, though, it is one of those subjects that I feel the more I study, the less I know. Razz

As with most difficult questions, only people who don't know very much about it can come up with a simple answer, because if you know very much about it, you know that there are too many factors to be able to decide it one way or another. It's the same way with many questions about religion and society. Too complicated. Razz

All the same, I don't see how anyone can be happy to be ignorant. The pursuit of knowledge is one of life's greatest joys.

Hi again, girls!
I'm not a catholic, I'm orthodoxe but it's the same actually, we talk about the christianity. I think that the Church, the priests, even they don't want it, MUST change, because we live in the 21 century, the things can't remain the same as at the beginning of the christanity. The Church must be closer to the ordinary people. And I'm sorry to say that, but it's a fact - the orthodoxe church in Bulgaria don't do the necessary to attract the young and the children. In my city there are two orthodoxe churches and one or two catholic :cheer:

so I know many catholics. They tell me that "their" priest play football with the boys, organize camps and trips for the children and so on ... and our church, I mean the orthodoxe doesn't do that kind of things that could help that the young men and women know well the religion, the traditions ... It's a pity ...

Hugs!

Vania wrote!

Quote :: The Church must be closer to the ordinary people. And I'm sorry to say that, but it's a fact - the orthodoxe church in Bulgaria don't do the necessary to attract the young and the children. In my city there are two orthodoxe churches and one or two catholic so I know many catholics. They tell me that "their" priest play football with the boys, organize camps and trips for the children and so on ... and our church, I mean the orthodoxe doesn't do that kind of things that could help that the young men and women know well the religion, the traditions ... It's a pity ...

THat is true in a way!
I belong to a scouts group in my parish and we are very active in helping the elderly that are very lonely,...visiting them in hospitals...even repairing their houses in the villages!
THere are groups that are in charge of the young and teenagers and I think, that at least , in my country, catholics are doing some good work regarding people in need!
This is perhaps where the church as an organization is good and has merit!!

About traditions, that you speak about, Vania, I am a bit sceptical!!! saaad

Of course that there are tradirions that are very important !!!! BUT..THERE IS A BUT....
We are very willing to help and do good deeds, but we tend to look at some traditions and rules and we think " OMG!!! THIS IS ANCIENT!! scratch

and we tend to make our own rules!!!! zvet

BUT...in spite of all this, we try to make people happier!!! zvet

Dear Alex!

I have read the Gospel of Judas very attentively, but I admit that some parts are a little difficult for me to understand!
Perhaps my knowledge of religion is not very deep!
But I understand that this Gospel is very different from the others and has a very different meaning! saaad

I admit it scared me a little! saaad

I have to read it again very slowly to understand it better! zvet

I am a Jew, so I don't know much about christians actually.....all your opinions are such interesting.

Maybe religion is used for bad things like we've seen in the past and even nowadays. The words of God are changed by people for the things they want....

the bible is kind of special in my opinion, i read it and there are so much strange things in it...you have to love and God loves us and on the other side churches and other religions said only their ideas were good and woman hadn't rights...people had to die....terrible....

we maybe just have to try to work with the love God gave in our harts, with the good things...not to do what everyone says but listen to our soul

Next week we go with a few students and teachers from school to Taizé, a convent in France....I'm curious what the people there will say, what we'll learn, if God there is....it will be a wonderful experience

(excuse me for saying this all so strange, I don't know the good English words Embarassed

)

Maria, do you maybe know the English or Dutch title of the book...it sounds so interesting....I try to learn everyting, new or old ideas....everyting Very Happy

Serena, I'll look for Wild Swans in our libary, it sounds like really beautiful book, even with the awful things that happened under the name of Cultural Revolution....

this is off topic, I know, but very big hugs for you Lerochka :<33: :<33: I hope you'll feel better soon.

Rachel, I understand you perfectly (maybe because my english is more strange than yours :disap:

) All you say is true. The origine of all this terrorist act in the present is the fanatism (is that the right spelling?) of some people who think that they became saints sacrifying their own lifes for "justice" :disap:

it's soooo absurd and stupid!
and the violence can't be stopped, and the terrorism causes new acts of terrorism and so on and so on...
it's sad...

AM expert Number of posts : 534 Registration date : 2006-03-30

Vania wrote:: Rachel, I understand you perfectly (maybe because my english is more strange than yours ) All you say is true. The origine of all this terrorist act in the present is the fanatism (is that the right spelling?)

Fanaticism. :vo:

Quote :: of some people who think that they became saints sacrifying their own lifes for "justice" it's soooo absurd and stupid!
and the violence can't be stopped, and the terrorism causes new acts of terrorism and so on and so on...
it's sad...

It's all horrible, and there's no easy end to it. But I better stop there or I'll start talking politics and then I'll never stop. shocked

Dear Rachel!

I have been looking for the title of the book in english all over internet, but I have only found out the titles in french and in spanish!
In spanish the title is EL COMPLOT DE MARIA MAGDALENA!!
Perhaps they havent translated it to english yet shocked

I am sooo sorry!! saaad

There is another interesting book about this theme , but I only found out the title of the book again in french , spanish and portuguese saaad

The title in french of this book I am talking about is L´´Évangile selon Pilate! and I found it very interesting!!
The author is Eric Emmanuel Scmitt.
I am sorry I wasnºt abl to help you!!! heart2

BESOS!

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